But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. I'm Peter Biello. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. So so. Just. Think you've seen a mountain lion? You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. Is this kind of a typical story. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. So there's even debate about that very subject. John is calling from Bennington. 19 Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Tell us your story. I don't know if she still is. I can't. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. It's good to talk to you. Post your sightings and NH photos here! The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . Sam Evans Brown. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. It's listed as population of least concern. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. It was in the spring flash kind of early summer and my wife looked at you look at the size of an adult bear and we were up in arms. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. Really appreciate it. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. I mean they're a survivor. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. You don't know what's going on. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. Well let's talk a little bit about that. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? Caller: Absolutely. We're not in the woods. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. No that's a little bit outside the range. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And why would they what. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. Patrick Tate: Okay. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. John. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. And it was unmistakable. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. Right. Caller: Hi. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. So let's let's go to the phones. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. Chartered: 1973 . Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. Patrick Tate: Well. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. That's too big for Bobcat. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. Caller: I have yeah. You treat it as if it's a sincere situation. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. Can you look into this picture. So. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Right. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. The report came in from a conservation officer. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. So it is possible to see male Mountain lions roam into the northeast - there was one hit by a car in CT a number of years back - but we don't have a breeding population of Mountain lions in New England. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. For all the men out there that don't realize it. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Caller: Oh yeah. Have you seen one. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. Thank you. You need a permit to have that. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Mountain Lions in NH. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. So what a neat experience. Theres tracks everywhere. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. Really appreciate it. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Caller: Are probably. New Hampshire Public Radio | So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. So one thing I'll add. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. Here it is. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. A lot of times. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. They kill big animals. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been.
Give today. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. Caller: I do. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. And they were using all the habitat. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. So now what's going on. Peter Biello: Well yeah. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. Give today. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. This is where things start breaking down when you so I get pictures with this great description and one of my favorite stories is a great description what the witness and then so I called the witness and wanted information from them and the person says What are you talking about. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. Well I can't tell you what you saw. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Okay. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. So Michael follows with the question. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. Caller: Oh hi. Okay. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. Yeah I did. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. Pelosi story here we go. Let us know your story and share your photos. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. They were able to do all that by genetics. N.H. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. Is that typically what was happening there. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. So take care of this problem. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. So it's there was no question in my mind. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. Mountain lion or cat running across. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. Well thanks for sharing. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. And those are not the same things. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. I think that you probably are. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Thank you very much for being here. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence.
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