As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. A. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. It has FasTrack connectors on one end and O Gauge track pins on the other. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. It can be a great secondary power supply for lighted buildings, signals, and other accessories. While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. CW80 Transformer. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. TRANSFORMERS ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. You must be signed in to continue. Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. $2799. Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. Transformer sizing for new systems To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. The 1033 is not the same as the 1044. If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! Most feeders will be only a few inches long so the smaller diameter wire will not be a problem. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. June 5, 2022; cleveland open chess 2021; mexican martial arts xilam All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. Lionels HO Gauge items are back! Classification/marker lights on the PRR steam engine, For Sale: Lionel 6-11127 Legacy Southern Pacific GS-4 Daylight, Lionel Bethlehem Steel slag car and ATLAS NYC Baggage car, Lionel O 2333790 TrainWorld & RBP Trains Chris Raines -Exclusive - Katy LEGACY ES44AC #2021, Converting MTH Rail king GS-4 PROTO 2 to ERR Cruise Commander, The Harpers Ferry Layout II - Backdrop panels completed. www.spankybird.shutterfly.com, God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. Our community is FREE to join. Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. The smaller the number, the larger the wire. LGB throttles 51070, 52120 and 52121 will all work with the 50061 and other LGB transformers. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. The higher powered units would not meet todays safety standards as issued by Underwriters Laboratories. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. The Lionel Track & Power catalog is BACK with the latest information for more ways to make your layout even bigger, better and more powerful! This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following, $12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable). Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. Take the hint. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. You could have a poor connection that caused the wire to heat up. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. In the middle range, Lionel made a lot of other transformers. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. My current layout uses about 28 sections of track (Lionel o-27). --I need a station for the train to stop at. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. They are fun to have. Effort. There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. If the voltage drop in the track is more than a small fraction of the transformer voltage, that is, a volt or two, you are going to have trouble running the trains anyway. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. no it isn't. Smaller feeder wires are used to bridge the small gap from the bus to the track. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. Lionel 1033 90 watt Transformer Postwar from 1950s-60s Whistle, Direction. The CW-80 is a nice little transformer, has accessory output as well,but as you have stated you will outgrow the CW-80 pretty quick. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. They run on three rail track. My question is this in order that this doesn't happen again what type of transformer would you recommend? M3103. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. Its a bargain at that price. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. This conserves the trains' power supply for their needs and makes troubleshooting much easier. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. what size lionel transformer do i need. Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. They are known as HO train sets because they are half the size of O-guage. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). How to open tamper resistant outlets, Xxcopy vs Xcopy: Command line copy utilities, Where to connect the red wire to a light switch, Brains 25 cents: The story behind the meme. In three-rail systems, the outer rails are both grounded, and the center rail is "hot.". If mixing both non-command as well as command engines, both by the way will run without any thing other than the appropriate transformer, it really depends on the budget. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. Accessories often interact with the train, such as a crossing gate that lowers as the train passes. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. Get the newest photos, videos, stories, and more from Trains.com brands. Been there, done that. This diagram shows all of the controls and the pinout for the Lionel RW transformer. If you add a lot of track and find that your train slows down as it gets farther from your transformer, you will need to run jumper wires to the opposite side of your track layout. What size Lionel transformer do I need? Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. We're sorry. The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. In either case, however, voltage and amperage draw is low and peak for only brief periods. Ill try to find a link to it for you. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. --I wish I had some more cars to put behind the engine. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon And that means theyre affordable. Lionel Ready-to-Play is a large sized train that's made to be affordable and easy-to-use for both kids and adults alike. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. Are you running command or conventional? Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. While it is tempting to go with the biggest wire possible to guarantee excess capacity, there are drawbacks to putting in more than you need. Do not use this device if water is present. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. Lionel Postwar 1033 Transformer Watch on Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Never had a problem. Its a good transformer. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. "What size wire should I use?" Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. (10 lights X . If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. Plug one of your transformers into each Fixed in. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. Dave: That certainly qualifies, don't forget the anti-gun lobbyist with the picket sign's. I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. The car on the left is scale, and the one on the right is the classic, underscale size. 24v, 120v, 208v, 240v, 480v, and 600v). Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. So, if you want to connect eight landscape lights to an electronic transformer, and the lights use 20 watts each, you would need a 160 watt transformer. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. It is 5" long. By only supplying power to the trains that need it, you can greatly reduce your needs. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. The only time you might not get your full moneys worth is during operation of locomotives equipped with Lionels TMCC or MTHs DCS command-control systems. This signifies compatibility with 50 Hertz power. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. It does not work with O27. This is because the demands for power are becoming more than your transformer can handle. Three conductor wire is common for household use. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. Both are lighted. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. Unlimited Members, sign in to enjoy sitewide access. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. Price Received. EXPLORE FasTrack 10" Straight Track 4-Pack 6-12032 $ 21.99 FasTrack Grade Crossing with Flashers 6-12052 $ 99.99 FasTrack O36 Curved Track 4-Pack 6-12033 $ 21.99 Legacy AMC-2 Motor Controller You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. . Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? Older transformers I had this issue with are RW, 1033, KW, ZW.newer transformers were all made by MTH. I recently read an article/product review in the OGR magazine for the new Lioneltransformerand wassurprisedto learn that not all voltage outputwave-formsare created equal (pure sine wave versus some type of clipped sine wave). We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. Anyway if it takes me 100 years to finish this thing one thing is for sure I will not have to worry about powering anything and everything. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. Our community is FREE to join. Ive talked about why here. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! [:)]. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. Dave, the nice thing about Lionel transformers is you can run them until the bimetallic breaker pops and then you let it cool and you are back in action (after shutting a few things down)! White and black are common selections. I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. Of course, if you happen to have enough Number12 wire left over from a home renovation project to install all the buses on your small layout, it won't do any harm. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter.